Sorry mate I've been really busy lately working on the identity for an event at Tate Modern and I've got a couple of other things going on too. Should get the Tate stuff done and dusted today though and will be able to focus on this again.

I agree with doing a couple more rounds and then meeting up to nail it, sounds good. I'll try make a new image later today or tomorrow to kick start the process.

Hey yo!

good to hear back from you bro.
Glad you agree with my last post. good to know we're on a level.
You're right, Copeland is big in the game, i can totally see his influence on your work.
With such a long break from the process of things we need to get back on it, give the project a new lease of life and see where it takes us.

The layer tennis has been interesting and successful so i think we should do a couple more rounds, and then when we develop something it might be time to get together and work on it collectively. doing that will probably mean we get more continuity which we can continue through to a logotype and potentially web applications such as a myspace and website.

Holla at me with your thoughts.love you.

Honey I'm Home

Hey man I'm back in Paradise Peckham now, soz for the lack of communication.

I completely agree with what you're saying. We seem to be barking up the wrong tree with those previous designs - I think that's what I was getting at when I said it was too domestic/safe etc. They are nice though... It could be good to get a combination of the complex/shattered shapes like our first designs, with the softer, more fluid shapes of our second design - illustrating both The Frantic and High Public Sweat.

I like Danny Sangra's work... good move. I especially like the vector graphic on the right side of that picture you posted. Reminds me a little of Bjorn Copeland (an absolute genius). He's in the noise band Black Dice and makes all of their visuals, massive influence on my work.






What's the next step? Couple more rounds of tennis?

Frantic

Yo, i have been looking back over some older posts and observed that i think the more successful/perhaps more poignant theme is the more "crazy and frantic" imagery. Just had a look at danny sangra's work which is exactly that.
have a look/wonder and see what you think: www.dannysangra.com

Where my homies at?

where you at dawwwwg? still lapping up the sun and good life in spain?
i hope all is well, holla at me when you get a chance and we'll crack on with the workside.
perhaps a change of tac is needed? lets re-kindle some excitement yerrr?

hit me up.

Latest

not the biggest fan of this but think it was important to do something without too much thought so's not to get hung up on aesthetics too much. i have attempted to write the name in an abstract form. but i still think it can be further messed with, and on retrospect perhaps using vague letter forms should be a start, but instead of being type, could be added together to create a whole image/pattern of some descript.

Touching Base

Word up bro!
It's been too long.
Firstly lets congratulate ourselves on handing in. can i getta' hell yeah!

I'll keep this short and savory. I think it has been too long since our last correspondence and in order to get the ball rolling again i think we should get back to basics.

I really like the route we've been taking recently, the latest posts along your drip drip drip route our looking sweet. I'm glad you took on board the comments i made about potentially building a font from the shapes, however i still think the image could be further distorted and altered.

To get back to developing this image i did a very quick addition which isn't necessarily an improvement but i think was important in order to get back to the task at hand. see what you think, and if you have time let me know/do a new number.

hope all is well dude.

International Co-lab

No worries pal. I've had my assessment to do all week as well. I'm on holiday now, in a little town in the hills of Spain called Mijas. Very nice.

But let me know when you're ready to get back into it. I've got my laptop out here and plenty of free time so I'm up for busting some groves.

Hope it's all good back in Lundun town.

Apologies

Mate!

i am so sorry, i am ridiculously stressed about the upcoming hand in, and in honesty have barely given anything else thought.
i really like the latest revision of the artwork, you clearly got exactly what i was thinking about the font issue. it looks brilliant but i think for the purposes of a graphic perhaps needs to be more ambigious and less readable. playing on the letters as a starting point, but eventually making more of a visual/pattern.

for all these thoughts i feel guilty in telling you i have not created anything yet. realistically i will be putting this to the side until friday, unless the miraculous happens and my portfolio somehow ends up looking sweet like tropicana.

so my friend, until then unless otherwise stated.
much love mate, hope all is going well for you.

Squash

Loved your idea of using the shapes for a typeface, here's a little tester. Sorry, I couldn't help myself !



I also really like your idea of jumbling the letters so they're barely recognisable - something I've not tried here, this is more of a basic type test. But there's a lot of scope with this, lots of potential.

brief interval

ey yo!
mad busy with work, poor show on my behalf.
i will hit you up as soon as i can. sorry for the delay.
love you

Font

...One thing that does spring to mind is that these shapes could be used to create a font, or could the image say, in a very vague way, 'high public sweat/the frantic'. creating a visual by dissecting the characters of the words into a jumble of letters and shapes that are still almost recognizable could be interesting.

not sure how i'd go about doing that, but perhaps it's something ill try.

Ace

Dude!

That was well worth the wait if ever I've known it. If I'm totally honest i am slightly intimidated by the prospect of altering this image. it is pretty perfect as it is. Compositionally i worry that changing it will ruin it, the shapes and tones suit the sparseness, offering up an overall 'soft' image which i believe to be lovely.

Your comments...'slightly off target regarding what The Frantic stand for - perhaps it's a bit too 'nice' for want of a better word - a bit too domesticated / friendly / safe.' Couldn't be more of a contradiction. This image is domesticated, friendly and safe, but that is exactly what The Frantic are.

I am going to play around with this, but am skeptical it will develop/improve it. Never one to give up i will be sure to try something, but maybe soon would be a good time to get together and nail our concept and direction.

Holla dawwwg.

Drip Drip Drip Drip

Round 2:

In the Illustrator file there's a series of basic shapes on the left of the artboard, like a tool kit, with which I've constructed the image. I've left a lot of empty space for you to play around/add to/delete/repeat etc. Feel free to bring in your own shapes/elements or do whatever you like.

As you can see I'm bringing the focus onto the album name. Not sure if it's slightly off target regarding what The Frantic stand for - perhaps it's a bit too 'nice' for want of a better word - a bit too domesticated / friendly / safe. Reminds me of the kind of visuals you'd expect from an eco-friendly car company, (is that possible?) like Honda. I don't know, maybe not... I kind of like it though.

Anyway It's partly inspired by your grid-based block typeface, partly inspired by the diagrams of sweat pores from earlier, and partly inspired by the masterful Siggi Eggertson:

Injury

Mate, really sorry I haven't done this yet I've suddenly been bombarded with a ton of work and it's taking up too much of my time. I will send something as soon as I get a spare minute.

Should have some free time thursday morning so will send over a few images then.

New Balls Please

i agree my latest addition was perhaps not the strongest. i was trying to move away from the geometry in an attempt to mix things up. i think it is important we use some figurative marks too. the significance of the tree was weak. i think of trees when i think about height. i understand i might be alone in that theory. but i am glad you picked up on my attempt to introduce some imagery taken from life.

i appreciate your points about common association. this is something i should have picked up on. its one of those things i know but do not know i know. so to have it pointed out to me is useful.

i think your right that it seems to contradict the bands current image and style. so i think fairly concisely we can give thumbs down to trees. my bad. there was nothing wizardous about what i did, a bit of live tracing and some minor edits was all. my skills are developing, but i think im a way off your abilities yet.

i think this composition needs to be left alone now. there are some amazing visuals that have cropped up, and the exercise is a good one to help us get creative.
im ready for round two,

...quiet please, Chatwin to serve.

Hirst

The symmetrical/psychedelic use of the tree in the last image reminds me of Damien Hirst's spin paintings. They're huge in real life, some over 6 foot.

Deuce

No worries man, looks like we're both pretty busy but yeah I'm happy with the pace things are going as well. A little gap here and there ain't nothin to worry about.

I liked the introduction of imagery taken from life, mix things up a bit, that was a nice surprise. If I'm being critical about it I would question the significance of a tree, not just in terms of this album (unless it was called high tree sweat) but also if you consider what The Frantic are about as a band. May be worth noting that trees/nature is often associated with folk (and some psych music), not that I'm saying we should stick to stereotypes but just thought it was worth mentioning, food for thought n all that. For me, the connotations of a tree seem to contradict the pop/glossy nature of The Frantic.

Regardless, it's a nice tree. I'm not sure how you made it actually, did you trace around a photograph with the pen tool or is it some photo vectorisng/rasterising magic you've performed on it?

Anyway, despite my anal views on using a tree I had a bash trying to incorporate it into the design. Making it more abstract and less recognisable seemed appropriate for me. Went a bit mad with it actually. Maybe too much, it's starting to get slightly complicated.



Also, when I first uploaded it I forgot to convert the colours to RGB, so below is the web trying to display a CMYK image - usually it just makes pictures look crap, but it comes out with a nice colour scheme here. Might be worth taking the image into photoshop and playing around with the hue to get some unexpected colour combinations.

latest

Holla,

I apologise in advance for this layer, i thought it would a be good idea before i started doing it. not so sure now, but see what you can do with it. i won't be offended it you delete/arrange it backwards.
Apologies for the time it's taken to get back to you, as i'm sure you can imagine, im a busy little child. unfortunately the project i am enjoying the most (this one) is not getting as much time as i would like.
Glad that we're on the same page thus far, its developing nicely. i believe the deadline is mid-late june, however that hasnt been clarified. we dont want to let it drag too long and become stale. the pace so far has been stimulating, so i believe we should continue working how we have been. i will do my best to get through to someone who can give me a real deadline.

one love.

Bridget

whar a fucker, she is basically doing everything we can do now with modern technologies, by hand, better and 50 years earlier. sweet like tropicana.
ive got to get busy, thanks for the email with the next later. i will crack on with it today, apologies for slow ralley. could go down in the history books, Henman never lasted this long!
check back and ill hit you up with a smash.
peace.

Bridget Riley

The master of messing with your eyes.

Fall, 1963

Blaze 4, 1963

Fragment 1, 1965

Untitled (Winged Curve), 1966

Untitled (Fragment 5), 1965

I love this last one, what a brilliant shape.

With regards to your comments in regards to my comments... well I don't have much more to add, I pretty much agree with all the points you addressed. The most important one being to focus on making imagery now, which we've started doing. Once I've finished doing the identity for this exhibition I'll make some images and send them over so we can have several games of 'layer tennis' running at once. That will hopefully be tonight/tomorrow. Although I've got another album cover to make for Tuesday so again, I apologise in advance for any lack of involvement thereof.

By the way I definitely don't think I'm working with an imbecile, working with you on this has been a pleasure for me as well and really appreciate your open and objective approach, it's good. I'm enjoying this project more than any of the others I'm working on right now and, like you, am quite excited about the potential of what we could make - we seem to bounce off each others ideas pretty well.

Oh, and when is the deadline?

Returned with a backhand

Tim Henman stylee.



It's early in the morning and I just had a mess around with your pattern before going to bed, I'll reply to your previous posts tomorrow. Might ask some advice on an identity I'm working on at the moment as well, it's tough - will probably contact you about it tomorrow.

layer tennis

this is really interesting, lets have some rallies! at a stage where we do not want to limit ourselves by making premature decisions i think this could be a really interesting way of letting them evolve themselves.

no rules, and no pressure is the name of the game. but to completely contradict myself, we should start creating some visuals, this project does have a deadline, and i dont want it to get stale.

i've emailed you with the pattern i created, please don't judge the impurities! do whatever you want with it, i am really excited by the potential results this collaboration could yield.

much love homes.

questions and answers

yo, i hear your pain about other commitments, and i apologise if i'm moving too fast with this. of course we need to meet a balance, so by all means take your time with it and don't put yourself under added pressure. i am going to respond chronologically to your latest posts...

a) i 100% agree with keeping an open mind to all potential options at this point, i might have been getting slightly carried away. i think some of the early colour schemes you cited were really interesting, so i reckon go for it on the "fleshy/sweaty colour scheme", see what you can do with it.
Again, i agree about your comments on texture too, i think a marriage between varying elements is something to embrace. my only concern is that sometimes is gets too much, and at this point we'd have to make some decisions, cross that bridge when we come to it...

b) descriptive/abstract was merely something i noticed, and doesnt have to be adhered to, you mentioned "i'm finding it difficult to make these sorts of decisions without making something first", and i couldnt agree more, i think we've found some really interesting visuals, before we get too carried away with what other people are doing, lets do something of our own...

c) i am glad you like the symmetry, with your logical/mathematical brain i'd be surprised to hear otherwise. again it isnt a must. in the pattern i showed earlier something i like is that it isnt actually symmetrical, all about the deliberate mistakes. subtle play on peoples expectations.

d) lets not make any superficial descisions at this stage. i agree we are more than capable of doing whatever we do well, and have combined skills.
your concern for rationale is more than merited, and is a good descipline. the only reason i am being slightly less concerned than normal about concept is that our brief was so loose. i think we should certainly work in a conceptual manner, and let the process decide what we are doing.
at the moment i am trying to focus on the words we've been given, and it seems your doing the same. i believe you should continue with your focus on the physicality of "sweat"/"high public sweat".

e) they are generic indie pop, which is why i second guess that their taste will be similar when it comes to visuals. lets not limit ourselves though. this is part of the reason i am so keen to do something really well, i want to be proud of whatever we do, and think they should have a total re-brand.

f) your not thinking too much, working with you has so far been a pleasure, and i welcome the descipline of your working process. i hope you dont think your working with an imbicile...

Deep Vector

I like your black and white 9li inspired pattern. Would you mind me adding some colour/texture to it? Or seeing if there's anything I can add to it?

On http://coudal.com they host a game called Layer Tennis. You can probably guess what it is, but here's the explanation from their website:

We'll be playing matches using video, animation, sound, photos, type and lots more, but the basic idea is the same no matter what tools are in use. Two competitors will swap a file back and forth in real-time, adding to and embellishing the work. Each artist gets fifteen minutes to complete a “volley” and then we post it to the site live. A third participant, a writer, provides play-by-play commentary on the action, as it happens. A match lasts for ten volleys and when it's complete, Season Ticket Holders tell us what they think and we'll declare a winner, so sign up today.




I don't usually like the look of what the players come up with, and most of the time there's some sort of joke or concept that they play around with. But it's a nice idea.

As for us, I'm more interested in the way the image could develop and grow. We both use Photoshop and Illustrator and can both draw, so we'll have no technical problems. If we forget all the competitive/time schedule stuff of Layer Tennis, but focus on reacting to/adding to/constructing a strong image and bouncing off of each other then it could become a good way for us to process and generate our ideas/imagery. We could both come up with an image to start with (as you've just done with your b+w pattern) and send the original files back and fourth, adding/adjusting/manipulating them every time - the key being to react to what the other has created. But in general, no rules I reckon.

If we did this with maybe 10 different images, we'd very quickly generate a lot of ideas and have something to develop.

Of course, it might not work... but worth a try. What do you think?

Concept/No Concept

sorry bout my lack of presence the past few days. i'm trying to juggle about 5 projects at the moment as well as keep on top of third year stuff for college.

with regards to the texture/collage, colourful/real debates, it certainly won't hurt to keep an open mind about what we do/don't use. real textures always look good up against vectors so i'm up for that. as for the colour, why don't we try them both? with a name like 'high public sweat' i'm still tempted to get some fleshy/sweaty colour scheme. but i'm not against using all out technicolour.

and about the descriptive/abstract thing... interesting point. but i'm finding it difficult to make these sorts of decisions without making something first. having said that though, i do like the idea of using symmetry.

with using symmetry or a full on colour scheme, i'm not against it, but my only concern is what the purpose of it would be other than to look good. i think no matter what we do it's going to look good, and it's very easy to make something cool and trendy, so we don't really have to worry about that side of things. as for having a message to say... well what do we want to say? i hear what your point about any concepts we come up with being lost on them, and maybe it is pointless to work with concepts. But regardless, we're designers, it's good practice. no matter how superficial the client/brief, i'd still rather have a reason for making x y and z. for my own sake more than anything.

but then... i suppose it is needless... if i'm honest i'm not a fan of their music, it's pretty generic indie pop, so maybe you're right - it is best to stick with something that just looks good.

hmmm... i'm thinking too much about all this. maybe ignore everything i've just said.

adventures in line

i have been playing with making some patterns, this is an example. inspired by your boy 9Li. add some colour?

descriptive and abstract...

yo, i have been looking back over the sighted works we've been discussing, and i think a common theme in them is that there is elements of descriptive visuals, e.g. people or identifiable objects, and in balance with this there is also elements of abstract marks such as patterns and symmetrical shapes.
i think the descriptive aspect is where we can convey a message, and the abstract is where we can get that element of "cool" they're looking for.
what do you think?

Colour V's Totally Real

one other thing....
in the earlier post of the symmetrical image from ilovedust i like the colour and texture achieved. i think we either need to go all out with colour, or keep it totally real! how do you feel about this?

texture/collage

another thing i love about some of the latest posts is the examples of collage and texture. please don't think i'm obsessed with vector, i think it'd be great if we could create something through a collage of medias. if its appropriate of course. it might get too crazy. in the lastest two images there is signs of hand-made graphics, but its all been tied together and given continuity. essentially it looks like vector with depth. yes i like that, vector with depth. shall we call ourselves that?!?

symmetry

with regard to symmetry these illustrations are pretty out there, very psychedelic.

9Li

very interesting work from this guy. i'm not familiar with him but glad you've pointed me in his direction.
i hear what your saying about the colours, and by no means do they have to be CMYK, its so hot right now. i do believe they will be wanting something fairly popular and "cool", but by no means do we have to do what everyone else is doing. i think bright and pop-esque is something to be considered, but no certainties.
i am into dense designs, and at the moment am a big fan of the symmetry of some of the latest posts. this makes the iumagery almost more like a banner/identity rather than a one-off. perhaps thats something to be considered.
i am a fan of hand-drawn to digitally filled work, but like you say, its too often done badly. 9Li is doing it well because he is using some gradients and strokes instead of simply using block colour.

Bruno 9li

Yeah nice, I really like your logo. Big and fat. And I hear what you're saying about the colours, but one thing I will say about those specific colours is that CMY(K) is a very trendy/popular colour combination at the moment. But I suppose that's what the band are going for... so maybe ignore my snobbery.

Ilovedust is interesting, I've seen some of their work before, it's pretty mental. And what a slick website... it baffles me how they do all that moving shit, very impressive.

I notice you're posting things that are very dense and heavy on detail.. is this something you'd like to achieve on the album cover?

If so, an illustrator with a similar attitude to density and detail is Brazilian illustratorBruno 9li. Slightly darker/edgier than Ilovedust and Grandpeople, but still definitely worth a look. Good example of hand drawn imagery with digital colouring, which is so often done badly. It's also a technique that gives a similar effect of highly polished vector graphics, but retains a raw/human element - may be worth considering.

Jamie Vex'd - In System Travel EP

Illustrations for Rojo Magazine

ilovedust

heck out "www.ilovedust.com" for some vector arts. its very "hot right now" but like you mentioned earlier grandpeople are doing it with some added style and awareness.

vector arts fest

this repetitive and symmetrical image is nice, very vector, but appealing to the eye all the same. add some colour?

font

the above was some visuals i created for their name earlier this year, they seemed to like it but its never been used. i think they most warmed to the colours used, so we're looking at vibrant and pop-esque.

aesthetics

nice direction change. feeling the latest for shore! and due to the looseness of the brief i think something over conceptual will be wasted on them. unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately i think they're most going to respond to something which looks nice.
really like the fabric and loaf posts, lovely combination of medias. the loaf image with some strands of glossy color could make for a visual feast.

Grandpeople

I hear you with the gloss paper. No problem. And with regards to the vector art, that's absolutely fine. Infact I've been looking a lot at the design company Grandpeople recently, really high quality design work with a brilliant awareness of composition. If I was an art director for The Frantic, I'd just hire Grandpeople to do this album cover. Slick glossy vector graphics that often have a liquid/fluid/dripping aesthetic - would work really well with the whole sweating thing - especially those that use flesh tones, which also remind me of the microscopic images of cells earlier.

A few examples:

Vagant (Literature Publication): Cover Art

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Liquid Studies in Vector and Gradient (no client)

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Juvelen - 1: Album Art

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Skatebård - Love Attack: Album Art

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They're good with figurative elements too - quite nice to see a mixture of the fluid graphics with some more grainy/sketchy figurative collage like the follow:


Fabrik Magazine: Illustrations

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LOAF - Bad Taste Emergency: Album Artwork

macro

big fan of the 'skin eperdermis taken from heel' image, love the abstractness, and the macro.
in more hideous news, i think they'll like some horrible "vector" art like the above. but lets not get hung up on it.

i like where you're going.
with regard to the gloss effect i agree, but think it would be prudent to assume we will be printing on standard paper, likely gloss. any aesthetic we can achieve without the aid of the material would be preferable.

Gloss

Don't mean to point out the blindingly obvious but sweat on skin gives a glossy/wet aesthetic. It might be an idea to use a very glossy paper or printing method to give the paper/packaging a similar look/feel, as if it was sweating itself. I'm not normally a fan of glossy products, but in a context like this it could be interesting - add a tactile element to it.

Like these shoes:

Depends on how much it costs as well, but it would really work if we used a matte paper with one area (the design/image) printed in super gloss - like you get on magazine covers where the magazine name is printed in gloss and the rest is matte.

Maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself there, but worth a thought.

Microscopic

Fingertip: Mrocrine sweat gland.

Scalp: Sebaceous gland.

Aprocrine sweat glands in a dog.

This isn't a sweat gland of any kind, but an example of thick skin epidermis taken from a heel. I included it just because it's an incredible image... looks like a watercolour or Rothko painting, but better. Some out of space nebula.. or icecream slowly melting.